Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

01/21/2008 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:40:54 PM Start
03:42:11 PM HB176
03:57:38 PM Mike Williams, Department of Revenue (dor)
05:29:16 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Testimony continued from Saturday, 1/19 TELECONFERENCED
Committee Meeting:
Alaska's Gas: How Our Current Fiscal
Policies Stack Up; North American and
International Regimes
Dr. Michail Williams, Chief Economist/DOR
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled: TELECONFERENCED
= HB 176 CREATE FORT ROUSSEAU CAUSEWAY PARK
Moved CSHB 176(RES) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 21, 2008                                                                                        
                           3:40 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 176(RES)                                                                                                  
"An Act creating the Fort Rousseau Causeway State Historical                                                                    
Park."                                                                                                                          
     MOVED CSHB 176(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MIKE WILLIAMS, Chief Economist, Department of Revenue (DOR),                                                                    
provided background information on natural gas.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 176                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CREATE FORT ROUSSEAU CAUSEWAY PARK                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) WILSON                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
03/05/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/05/07       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/28/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/28/07       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
04/04/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/04/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 176(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/04/07       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/10/07       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) 6DP                                                                                    
04/10/07       (H)       DP: ROSES, SEATON, KOHRING, GUTTENBERG,                                                                
                         GATTO, JOHNSON                                                                                         
04/19/07       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/19/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 176(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/19/07       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/20/07       (H)       FIN RPT CS(RES) 7DP 1NR                                                                                
04/20/07       (H)       DP: NELSON, THOMAS, CRAWFORD, JOULE,                                                                   
                         STOLTZE, HAWKER, MEYER                                                                                 
04/20/07       (H)       NR: KELLY                                                                                              
04/30/07       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/30/07       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 176(RES)                                                                                 
05/02/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/02/07       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
05/09/07       (S)       RES AT 4:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
05/09/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/09/07       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PEGGY WILSON                                                                                                     
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 176.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF STONE                                                                                                                     
Staff for Representative Wilson                                                                                                 
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 176 for the sponsor.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MIKE WILLIAMS, Chief Economist                                                                                                  
Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                                     
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave presentation on natural gas issues.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Resources Standing                                                                    
Committee meeting to order at 3:40:54 PM, Present at the call to                                                              
order were Senators Wielechowski, Stedman, Stevens and Huggins.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
        CSHB 176(RES)-CREATE FORT ROUSSEAU CAUSEWAY PARK                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:42:11 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   HUGGINS   announced   CSHB   176(RES)  to   be   up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PEGGY  WILSON,  sponsor   of  HB  176,  gave  the                                                               
committee an overview of what the  bill does. In the build up for                                                               
WWII, the  Department of the  Army constructed  fortifications at                                                               
several locations encircling Sitka  Sound. An 8,000-foot rock and                                                               
gravel road  was built connecting  several small islands  west of                                                               
the  then Navy's  Sea Plane  and  Operating Base  in Sitka.  This                                                               
causeway  terminated at  the  Army's  command headquarters  named                                                               
Fort Rousseau on  Makhnati Island. She said some  of the original                                                               
concrete  structures built  by  the military  are  still in  fair                                                               
condition. They  include a tri-level command  post, anti aircraft                                                               
gun   batteries,   three   ammo  magazines   and   two   bunkers.                                                               
Construction of  the Sitka Airport  in the late  1960s eliminated                                                               
pedestrian and vehicle access. The  causeway lands, most of which                                                               
belong to the State of Alaska,  remain under management by the as                                                               
part of the  Sitka Airport under the management  of Department of                                                               
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  said,  Sitka  Trail  Works  has  received                                                               
federal  and  state  grants to  rehabilitate  the  causeway,  but                                                               
cannot continue until  the land is transferred  to the Department                                                               
of  Natural  Resources.  State   Parks  can  provide  the  active                                                               
management with  a very small  fiscal note. Without  this status,                                                               
there  will   be  no  authorization   to  move  ahead   with  the                                                               
environmental  and  cultural   resources  assessments,  planning,                                                               
interpretation, and  rehabilitation of  this historic  site, thus                                                               
jeopardizing  the  considerable  grant funds  committed  to  this                                                               
effort. Since visitors  are very eager to tour this  WWII site, a                                                               
positive revenue  stream to the  general fund should  be realized                                                               
in just a few years.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
She  said the  proposed  Ft. Rousseau  Causeway State  Historical                                                               
Park is small. It contains 58  acres of upland area with a sliver                                                               
of tidelands  large enough  for the  footprint of  a dock.  It is                                                               
consistent  with the  purpose behind  the establishment  of parks                                                               
and  in part  promotes the  growth and  development and  provides                                                               
opportunities and enjoyment for the  citizens of Sitka as well as                                                               
visitors.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said this bridge  couples the past with the                                                               
present. The causeway has been  added to the National Register of                                                               
Historic  Places  and  has  been   designated  as  an  historical                                                               
landmark  by  the National  Parks  Service.  Preservation of  the                                                               
unique historical features of the  Fort Rousseau area will remind                                                               
all visitors about Alaska's role in  WWII and allow for a glimpse                                                               
into the  life of the  soldiers who  stood ready to  defend their                                                               
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  if the $16.8 thousand fiscal  note was still                                                               
applicable.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON replied  that there  is an  updated fiscal                                                               
note of $18.1 thousand.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:46:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS asked if the  department had any plans to install                                                               
placards with explanations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  replied yes; the  business plan is  a very                                                               
good one.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked who Mr. Rousseau was.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CLIFF STONE, staff for Representative  Wilson, explained that Mr.                                                               
Rousseau  was a  brigadier general  who was  commissioned by  the                                                               
president  of  the  United  States  to  accept  Alaska  from  the                                                               
Russians.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:48:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN  commented that during  WW II Sitka  was targeted                                                               
by the Japanese  as the next invasion point in  Alaska and the US                                                               
military built gun emplacements along  the causeway and had radar                                                               
station on  Harbor Mountain. The  concept is  to not only  tie in                                                               
the military  heritage of the  park, but to also  enhance marine-                                                               
based wildlife viewing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:51:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN moved  to pass CSHB 176(RES)  from committee with                                                               
individual recommendations and attached  fiscal notes. There were                                                               
no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:52:10 PM at ease 3:52:30 PM                                                                                               
SENATOR GREEN joined the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS called the meeting back to order at 3:52:30 PM.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
^Mike Williams, Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  WILLIAMS, Chief  Economist,  Department  of Revenue  (DOR),                                                               
said  his  purpose  in  visiting  the  committee  is  to  provide                                                               
background   information  on   natural  gas.   He  read   from  a                                                               
publication created by the International Energy Agency (IEA)                                                                    
last year named "Natural Gas Market Review 2007." It said:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Natural   gas  is   becoming  an   increasingly  global                                                                    
     commodity. Development of  previously separate regional                                                                    
     gas markets  can no longer be  considered in isolation.                                                                    
     To  2015  investment is  a  more  serious concern  than                                                                    
     identified in earlier work.  North America is preparing                                                                    
     to import LNG from  both Pacific and Atlantic producers                                                                    
     while  Pacific  consumers  have sharply  increased  LNG                                                                    
     imports from Atlantic  markets. LNG production capacity                                                                    
     is growing from 240 billion  cubic meters (bcm) in 2005                                                                    
     to  a projected  360  in  2010 -  that's  a 50  percent                                                                    
     increase.  But  capacity  increases after  2010,  2012,                                                                    
     depend critically  on new  projects being  sanctioned -                                                                    
     and  very  soon, I  might  add.  LNG importers  in  the                                                                    
     Pacific and European regions remain  able to outbid the                                                                    
     US  in   order  to  secure  incremental   supplies  due                                                                    
     primarily to differences  in domestic market structure.                                                                    
     The US price usually indicated  by the Henry Hub price,                                                                    
     therefore seems to be setting  a floor price for price-                                                                    
     sensitive LNG.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Investment in  the gas  sector is  a serious  cause for                                                                    
     concern.  Gas  investments   everywhere  are  suffering                                                                    
     higher costs  and construction  delays. A  selection of                                                                    
     these  LNG projects  shows production  delays averaging                                                                    
     almost a year  with average cost overruns  of more than                                                                    
     $2 billion  US per project. Furthermore  only one major                                                                    
     new  LNG liquifaction  project has  been sanctioned  in                                                                    
     more  than a  year  and a  half -  a  marked slow  down                                                                    
     compared  to previous  years. Reports  pointing towards                                                                    
     the formation of a  gas producers association analogous                                                                    
     to the  organization for petroleum  exporting countries                                                                    
     will do  little to  improve this situation.  The global                                                                    
     demand  for  raw materials  and  talent  has pushed  up                                                                    
     costs  dramatically  in  some  cases  and  reduced  the                                                                    
     effectiveness of each  investment dollar spent compared                                                                    
     to  the  situation  reported  last  year.  There  is  a                                                                    
     distinct   deficit   of  new   long-distance   pipeline                                                                    
     investment  in  the  period  to   2015  -  noting  that                                                                    
     investments    in   transportation    over   increasing                                                                    
     distances show a distinct preference for LNG.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Regulatory uncertainty  and NIMBY (not in  my backyard)                                                                    
     issues  continue  to   slow  investment  in  downstream                                                                    
       pipeline and other infrastructure especially when                                                                        
     borders must be crossed.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS said  he  would divide  his  presentation into  two                                                               
parts -  the world  market and North  American markets.  He would                                                               
look at the  common trends and forecasts from  numerous sources -                                                               
Baker Hughes,  BP, Ceti Gas,  CNI, the Federal  Energy Regulatory                                                               
Commission,   the  International   Energy  Agency,   Reuters,  US                                                               
Department of Energy, Wood MacKenzie.  He said he did not endorse                                                               
any  one forecast.  He  would focus  them on  the  trends -  what                                                               
happened in the past and where we are going in the future.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:57:38 PM                                                                                                                    
He said that natural gas  markets are really dynamic and changing                                                               
right now.  He started  with the world  view covering  six areas:                                                               
reserves,    world-wide   reserves,    production,   consumption,                                                               
transportation, prices and an outlook.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS went  to his  chart  of natural  gas reserves  that                                                               
indicated where the  US stands in terms of  trillion cubic meters                                                               
(tcm). It  indicates that reserves  have gone from about  156 bcf                                                               
to  over  181  bcf  in  a seven-year  period  for  a  16  percent                                                               
increase.  Russia  has the  largest  reserves  followed by  Iran,                                                               
Qatar, Saudi  Arabia; Russia  and Iran have  about 46  percent of                                                               
the world's proven reserves. The  US shares about 3.2 percent and                                                               
Alaska is well  under 1 percent.  Production  increased by almost                                                               
18 percent  between 2000 and 2006;  Russia at 22 percent  and the                                                               
US at  15 percent  are the  two largest  producers. Iran  had the                                                               
fastest growth, about 67 percent in that time.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:59:19 PM                                                                                                                    
He said consumption has increased by  about 3 percent a year; the                                                               
US is the largest consumer at  about 22 percent; Russia is second                                                               
with about 15 percent.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:59:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  HUGGINS   asked  where  China   and  India  fall   in  the                                                               
consumption category.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied that China  consumes 45 bcm; it is primarily                                                               
a coal  consumer. It has  signed contracts with Shell  to develop                                                               
IGCC facilities. One  of the eight studies  undertaken about fuel                                                               
generation in the world included  one of those plants. He thought                                                               
they would become  a big player in gas, but  when prices went up,                                                               
they backed  off, but they seem  to be going back  into it again.                                                               
He didn't know how it was going to play out.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:01:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said  he thought Alaska alone has  34 tcf of                                                               
known reserves and that doesn't match with his US figures.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS reminded  him of when Mr. Banks  talked about proven                                                               
reserves being based  on what's on the book when  a company files                                                               
with the FCC.  The US Department of Energy has  Alaska down for 9                                                               
- 10  tcf, but  it's a definitional  issue. Proven  reserves need                                                               
contracts in place.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:03:00 PM                                                                                                                    
His world production export chart  covered 10 years; it indicates                                                               
that exports  are increasing faster than  production, which means                                                               
more nations are  beginning to export. He pointed  out that while                                                               
production  has increased  by 3  percent/year, exports  have been                                                               
increasing  in excess  of 7  percent/year  - LNG  is the  fastest                                                               
growing at about 10 percent/year.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:04:06 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked for  a five-year  update on  construction of                                                               
LNG or regasification plants in the US that are operating.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied that six  plants are in  operation; however                                                               
one of them is not on land, but in the Gulf of Mexico.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:04:46 PM                                                                                                                    
He showed  them next  a chart  of gas world  trade routes  to the                                                               
Asian and European markets. He  said some cargos have started off                                                               
for the  US, but have been  diverted to Asia because  of a better                                                               
price there.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:05:29 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  WILLIAMS went  to  his  next chart  and  said prices  aren't                                                               
constant. Several  things stand  out; one is  that US  prices are                                                               
far more volatile than either German  or LNG prices. In part that                                                               
is because of  the isolation the US market has  had from the rest                                                               
of  the  world  by  not  importing much  LNG.  However,  that  is                                                               
changing. He  pointed out  that there  is a  stronger correlation                                                               
between the  LNG and  the pipeline prices  than there  is between                                                               
any one of  those and the US  prices. When price goes  up in one,                                                               
the other goes up almost the same amount.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:06:43 PM                                                                                                                    
Comparing  oil prices  to  gas  prices, he  went  to the  average                                                               
annual prices  in 1969  - 2005 for  Japanese crude  cocktail (the                                                               
average price  for all  the crude oils  imported into  Japan) and                                                               
LNG prices. In  the mid-80s after oil prices  crashed, LNG prices                                                               
were  higher than  crude prices.  Starting in  2002 crude  prices                                                               
started being higher  than LNG prices. Around 2002 -  2004, a lot                                                               
of the  contracts were  renegotiated and at  that time  they said                                                               
when crude  prices go up, LNG  prices will only go  up 85 percent                                                               
of what  the crude price  went up. He  didn't know if  this would                                                               
cause companies to modify their contracts in the future.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  if he  agreed  with that  theory about  the                                                               
relationship in prices.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied that both  prices may come down; he believed                                                               
very strongly there will be a correction.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:09:10 PM                                                                                                                    
LNG  contracts  have a  looser  linkage  to  crude oil  and  spot                                                               
cargoes. He quoted an IEA study:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Traditional LNG projects  were underpinned by long-term                                                                    
     sales  and purchase  contracts with  consuming markets.                                                                    
     However,  more  recent  projects have  been  sanctioned                                                                    
     with  upstream stakeholders  purchasing planned  output                                                                    
     and  in turn  marketing  by  themselves either  through                                                                    
     capacity  and/or equity  acquisition at  regasification                                                                    
     terminals in  consuming countries or even  direct sales                                                                    
     to willing buyers.  Those companies with regasification                                                                    
     capacities  in  multiple  consuming  regions  are  also                                                                    
     making free onboard (FOB)  off-take commitments to fill                                                                    
     those capacities or to sell  a higher-payer market in a                                                                    
     more flexible approach than previously seen.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He explained that  this means that 15 years ago  all of one's LNG                                                               
contract would be sold in one  market. That has changed over time                                                               
because the  plants were "debottlenecked" and  had extra cargoes.                                                               
As price differentials started creeping  up, they started selling                                                               
extra cargos  to different  markets not  under the  contract. The                                                               
renewed  contracts now  specify you  don't have  to sell  all the                                                               
cargo to  one market; you  can diversity. This is  the beginnings                                                               
of a  global market  for gas.  For the first  time in  history as                                                               
much as 6 percent of the  Atlantic region's 8 bcm was diverted to                                                               
the Asian market in 2006.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:11:14 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  WILLIAMS switched  to  a Middle  East  economic survey  from                                                               
November  19, 2007.  The  byline said  "LNG  market evolution  to                                                               
bring  producers growing  off-take diversity."  He urged  them as                                                               
they  go  through  AGIA  to  remember  that  the  LNG  market  is                                                               
undergoing fundamental changes and  the trend is accelerating. It                                                               
promises to  drive the  globalization of  gas markets.  The short                                                               
term and spot  market accounted for about 16 percent  of trade in                                                               
2000 compared to under 4 percent 10 years ago.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He read from  the Economic Times out of Singapore  of November 22                                                               
that said the Dubai Multi  Commodity Center (DMCC) is planning to                                                               
launch a liquefied  natural gas futures contract  on its exchange                                                               
as  soon as  surging energy  prices increase  demand for  hedging                                                               
tools. With a  storage hub in place, they are  in a good position                                                               
to launch  the contract,  the article said.  DMCC along  with the                                                               
company in  Dubai is setting  up a 40 bcf  to 65 bcf  LNG storage                                                               
facility at  a cost of  about $2  billion to offer  customers the                                                               
ability to  store and trade  the product. He suspected  that they                                                               
would  see that  happen with  natural  gas within  two years  and                                                               
pointed out that  Qatar has already spent $200 million  to set up                                                               
the exchange.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:13:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS asked  him to explain the  fundamental changes he                                                               
is talking about in the LNG market.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied  it's no longer one seller and  one buyer or                                                               
one producer  and one consumer.  The producer now has  the option                                                               
to  sell its  cargos  in more  than one  market.  To get  project                                                               
financing you  have to  show in-place  contracts to  purchase the                                                               
gas.  Over  time  as  more   producers  have  come  on  and  more                                                               
gasification  facilities  have  been   built  around  the  world,                                                               
companies  have been  able to  expand their  production and  send                                                               
extra to the new markets  (regassed facilities). "It's a very big                                                               
deal; and  the fact that we're  going to have spot  trading in it                                                               
is also a very big deal."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  if that  means buyers  would come  to the                                                               
large  storage  area and  buy  from  it  without having  a  prior                                                               
commitment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  asked  if  that  would  make  the  market  more                                                               
volatile.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS responded, "That's a  good question." He thought the                                                               
financial  sector  amplified  the trends,  rather  than  creating                                                               
them. He didn't know if that would make it more volatile.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:14:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said LNG provides  more flexibility and that                                                               
all things considered, it's better than a fixed pipeline.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied, "For a producer  it might be, it might very                                                               
well be."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked, "How about for Alaska?"                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:15:54 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS said  he was asked a difficult question.  One has to                                                               
look at all  options and one of the things  about a pipeline that                                                               
would  head into  Canada is  that Alaska  wouldn't have  both the                                                               
liquefaction  cost plus  the pipeline  cost.  Countries that  are                                                               
exporting  a  lot   of  gas,  like  Qatar   and  Australia,  have                                                               
facilities on  top of  the gas  reserves. Liquifaction  in Alaska                                                               
would occur  on the water's edge,  but the gas has  to get there.                                                               
"So, there is  a difference," he emphasized. LNG  does offer more                                                               
flexibility; it's  not the  only factor to  consider -  and costs                                                               
are important.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:16:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  shorter term contracts  are the  wave of                                                               
the future.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS answered  that he wouldn't say they  are short term;                                                               
they're still  long term, but  they are  not tying up  the entire                                                               
production volumes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  said he had showed  them how crude and  natural gas                                                               
prices had  diverted in Japan  and he wanted  to do the  same for                                                               
the US. He  used West Texas Intermediate (WTI) and  prices at the                                                               
Henry Hub from  1986 - 2007. Overall  the correlation coefficient                                                               
was about .87 for the entire  period. That means when one goes up                                                               
the other goes  up. But they start going apart  at August 2005. A                                                               
closer  look after  August 2005  showed that  gas prices  dropped                                                               
below oil  prices and tended to  go up and down  while oil prices                                                               
went up; so the correlation coefficient goes negative.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:20:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if  oil is awash  with natural  gas, maybe                                                               
oil production is on the decline  and wouldn't that make oil more                                                               
valuable than gas.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied no, because  the transportation costs for it                                                               
are going up.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:21:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  recalled that the  US imports the majority  of its                                                               
crude oil from  Canada that has the number two  known reserves in                                                               
the world (tar sands).                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied  yes and he said those tar  sands would play                                                               
into  the  Canadian   gas  coming  into  the  US   later  in  his                                                               
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:21:33 PM                                                                                                                    
He  next presented  an  outlook  from Ceti  Gas,  not because  he                                                               
favors it  but because  it's easy  to read.  The trends  are very                                                               
similar  to  those from  the  US  Department  of Energy  or  Wood                                                               
MacKenzie. He  likes this chart  because it breaks out  the world                                                               
by regions  and you can  see the supply  and the demand  and also                                                               
the gap.  The world  total at  the bottom shows  that gas  use is                                                               
increasing by 2  to 2.2 percent/ year, a  typical forecast. North                                                               
American  has   a  flat  supply   with  demand   increases.  This                                                               
highlights  the fact  that the  US will  have to  import gas  and                                                               
leads to the question of how that will occur.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:23:13 PM                                                                                                                    
His  synopsis  of the  world  overview  is  that gas  growth  has                                                               
continued;  we're seeing  more  LNG;  a spot  market  for LNG  is                                                               
developing; and gas and oil  prices are delinking (He didn't know                                                               
if they would in the future).                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if it  wouldn't be the natural evolution of                                                               
a market that  as the gas industry develops; a  spot market price                                                               
develops along with it.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS replied  yes  and that  tankers  have been  getting                                                               
bigger. Some  of the issues  surrounding that are they  can't get                                                               
into some of the ports.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:24:19 PM                                                                                                                    
Moving  to North  America he  went to  supply and  demand issues.                                                               
Demand  has   four  major  sectors:   industrial  (petro-chemical                                                               
plants),  residential  (heating   and  cooking),  electric  power                                                               
(generating  electricity) and  commercial  (heating). Other  uses                                                               
like plant, pipelines and transportation use smaller amounts.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:25:05 PM                                                                                                                    
Historically  industrial  electricity   is  the  fastest  growing                                                               
sector  over  the  last  15  - 20  years.  This  is  because  the                                                               
efficiency of combined cycle electric  generating using gas is in                                                               
excess  of  50 percent.  Moving  forward,  however, he  said  the                                                               
petro-chemical industry in the US  has lost market share over the                                                               
last 15 - 20 years. Employment  in that sector is down 33 percent                                                               
since 1990; so  it is not competitive. While  there will continue                                                               
to be growth in electricity, it's reduced.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:26:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to  describe petrochemical subunits, like                                                               
cement, that are drifting away from production in the US.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied that  polypropylene is  one of  the biggest                                                               
units;  from  that  you  get  fertilizers and  a  wide  array  of                                                               
products. The  largest new  petro plants are  being built  in the                                                               
Middle East.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  it is  not cost  effective to  have them                                                               
here.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied  that one reason those plants  aren't in the                                                               
US  is because  the prices  are  lower elsewhere.  But he  hadn't                                                               
actually seen any  of the contracts and he knows  that the Middle                                                               
East has guaranteed supplies.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  for data  on geographical  trends in                                                               
North  America that  might relate  to Alaska  where LNG  might be                                                               
shipped to the West Coast versus the Midwest.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied that  he had a map of all  the LNG plants in                                                               
operation as well  as the proposed plants. He has  also had a map                                                               
of  existing  pipelines in  North  American  along with  all  the                                                               
natural gas pipelines and LNG plants.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  said he had  heard that  most of the  proposed LNG                                                               
plants  will not  get built  at the  sites proposed  for lots  of                                                               
reasons.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:29:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS agreed  and added that he had heard  about the NIMBY                                                               
feelings. The industry has worked  around that issue, however, by                                                               
developing regasification  facilities on offshore  platforms with                                                               
floating pipelines to shore.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:30:10 PM                                                                                                                    
He went  to an  old chart on  natural gas demand  in the  US, but                                                               
said  the  data  isn't  much  different  now.  One  of  the  most                                                               
important things  on it to note  was that the total  demand which                                                               
is 25 tcf  remains stable until 2015 when it  starts going up. In                                                               
2005 it actually  went down due to the hurricanes  in the Gulf of                                                               
Mexico  because a  lot of  petro-chemical plants  in that  region                                                               
went down and so they weren't consuming.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:31:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked him to differentiate  between commercial and                                                               
industrial use.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS answered for industrial  use for them to think about                                                               
heavy industries  - petro-chemical  plants and things  like that;                                                               
for  commercial use  to think  in terms  of large  buildings that                                                               
house offices - software companies and things like that.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:32:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked   why  residential,  commercial  and                                                               
industrial uses are all going down.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS  opined  that  fuel   efficiency  is  a  big  deal.                                                               
Anecdotally, he  has heard  people with  old houses  have started                                                               
switching  out gas  because of  the 2005  hurricane. Thinking  in                                                               
terms of trends,  he said, the hurricane of 2005  went far beyond                                                               
price. From a  consumer point of view one could  ask: Do you want                                                               
to have gas  and is flexibility always the  best thing? Pipelines                                                               
have value because they are already there.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
One has  to look  at the big  picture. The downs  for gas  in the                                                               
2000 - 2005 timeframe are  all associated with Hurricane Katrina;                                                               
but in the 2005 - 2010  timeframe those industries that went down                                                               
for six months started coming  back; most are in operation again.                                                               
One percent growth is shown in 2010 - 2015 area.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:35:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked why  those sectors are  decreasing in                                                               
natural gas use long term because  you don't see more coal plants                                                               
in the west,  oil is diminishing and nuclear  plants aren't being                                                               
built. Natural  gas is clean and  relatively cheap; so why  is it                                                               
not on the increase?                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied, "Those are  some of the  uncertainties I'm                                                               
going to leave  you to ponder when I depart  today." He explained                                                               
that natural  gas is generating spare  electricity capacity right                                                               
now; it is the most expensive of  the fossil fuels so they use it                                                               
for  peaking times.  Long  term, though,  because  of the  issues                                                               
surrounding Hurricane Katrina  and the high cost  per MMBTU North                                                               
American  utilities are  beginning  to consider  other options  -                                                               
like nuclear.  Two nuclear  plants were  proposed to  the Nuclear                                                               
Regulatory Commission in September 2007  - the first two proposed                                                               
in 31  years. After the  hurricanes, Texas utilities  proposed 15                                                               
or 20 integrated gasification  combined-cycle coal (IGCC) plants.                                                               
The  environmentalists didn't  like that;  so they  withdrew them                                                               
and proposed  five or six IGCC  plants and a nuclear  plant. Long                                                               
term  the   decisions  haven't  been  made;   but  utilities  are                                                               
beginning  to make  those decisions.  It's  a very  big deal,  he                                                               
stated.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:38:11 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS explained  that the issues to deal  with are natural                                                               
gas  regulations,  hurricanes, international  competition,  price                                                               
effects and legislation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He briefed them on the history  of gas regulation which began for                                                               
the US in  1938; deregulation began in 1978 and  was completed 14                                                               
years  after that.  That  means the  industry  was regulated  for                                                               
almost  60 years  in  this  country. Natural  gas  prices at  the                                                               
wellhead were  pretty flat  from 1938  to 1972/3  - since  it was                                                               
government regulated,  gas was  cheap so  plants got  built using                                                               
gas.  In 1973  some  major things  happened in  the  world -  oil                                                               
prices quadrupled at  the same time gas prices  started going up.                                                               
For the  first time in  years those  industries had to  deal with                                                               
higher  natural  gas prices.  A  lot  of  companies went  out  of                                                               
business  in the  80s. Because  prices of  oil went  higher, they                                                               
could actually drill for oil, but gas was constrained.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
In  the mid-70s  the US  started having  a supply  crunch; that's                                                               
what  prompted the  1978  Natural Gas  Policy  Act. They  started                                                               
saying if  a well was a  certain age they could  charge a certain                                                               
price, but  the newer wells  could charge a higher  price because                                                               
their costs were  higher. After going through that  for years, it                                                               
was deregulated.  After that prices  went up. So industry  has to                                                               
decide what it  will do going forward - use  a new energy source,                                                               
a different technology? Move overseas?                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:41:33 PM                                                                                                                    
He said the question of whether demand  will go up is a good one.                                                               
If you're producing petro-chemicals,  would you rather produce it                                                               
at half  the cost  in Saudi Arabia  or do it  here in  the United                                                               
States?  If you  are producing  in this  country, you  don't have                                                               
transportation charges and don't have  to worry about things like                                                               
quotas that  may pop up in  the future. He said,  "It's something                                                               
to consider and  I don't know what the answer  is, but regulation                                                               
has made a  difference in this country in the  use of natural gas                                                               
and its impact is still being felt."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  said  the interruptible  supply  of  gas  is  a big  deal  to                                                               
utilities. So, price  isn't the only issue for them.  He said the                                                               
US Department of Energy wrote a  paper on the effects of cyclones                                                               
on natural supplies in the Gulf of Mexico.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:42:54 PM                                                                                                                    
He  said the  average US  ethylene  plant size  is about  200,000                                                               
tons/year;  Saudi Arabia  is 750,000  tons/year  - possibly  with                                                               
favorable prices,  which he couldn't document.  These are serious                                                               
differences   in  efficiencies,   something  that   shouldn't  be                                                               
underestimated. He repeated  that he didn't know  if demand would                                                               
continue growing.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what ethylene is used for.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied it's used as a base for a lot of plastics.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:44:11 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS  said he believes  gas prices will come  down. Since                                                               
2000  natural  gas  prices  has   increased  and  stimulated  the                                                               
evaluation of other  fuel options. He read a  medium term outlook                                                               
from Ceti Gas, an international  association that just deals with                                                               
natural gas; he  said Alaska joined as an associate  member so he                                                               
could understand their perspective. It  said that high gas prices                                                               
have  stimulated  competition  among energies  and  impacted  gas                                                               
demand in  many OECD (Organization  for Economic  Cooperation and                                                               
Development) countries. In the power  sector, substitution of one                                                               
energy by another  can be fairly rapid. It said  the price of gas                                                               
is taken  seriously by  the industrial  sector. In  the US  it is                                                               
prompting  the largest  industrial users  to turn  to alternative                                                               
energies. Some US  firms preferred to halt  production because of                                                               
the profit squeeze due to the high price of gas in 2005.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  asked the  committee members  to ask  themselves if                                                               
they would  put a more  fuel efficient  heater in their  homes if                                                               
natural gas prices  doubled again. "I mean just  think about what                                                               
you might do. Would you switch to electricity?"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:47:17 PM                                                                                                                    
He said  that electric generation  is the fastest  growing sector                                                               
of gas  consumption in the  US. His graph of  electric generation                                                               
by  fuel  source  showed  4  trillion  kilowatt  hours  of  gross                                                               
production in 2005. Coal is almost  half of that; gas is about 19                                                               
percent.  He  quoted  from  the IEA  that  deals  with  gas-fired                                                               
capacity:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     So  much   gas  fired   capacity  was  built   that  it                                                                    
     outstripped demand  for power  and many  combined cycle                                                                    
     gas turbines are now operating  at less than 35 percent                                                                    
     load factor.  Because of this,  there is  a substantial                                                                    
     latent demand for  gas in the power  sector without any                                                                    
     new investment  in the capital structure.  This dynamic                                                                    
     is  a  very  important  legacy   of  the  2000  -  2004                                                                    
     investment period.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:48:52 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  WILLIAMS  said  that  gas   plants  provide  flexibility  in                                                               
electrical systems; they are relatively  low capital cost and are                                                               
easy to  gear up and down.  He displayed another chart  from Wood                                                               
MacKenzie on the cost energy  from different methods. The highest                                                               
cost was  integrated gasification  combined cycle  at $90/million                                                               
watt hours;  gas was somewhere  between $65 and $70;  nuclear had                                                               
the lowest full cycle cost.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:51:42 PM                                                                                                                    
Natural gas has  the high cost of fuel delivered  to the electric                                                               
power  sector;  nuclear has  the  lowest.  However, gas  has  the                                                               
lowest  capital   cost;  nuclear  the  highest.   These  are  the                                                               
tradeoffs  utilities are  looking  at right  now;  and he  didn't                                                               
think  they  had  decided  yet.  All  the  construction  for  gas                                                               
capacity hasn't  been completed from  when it started  five years                                                               
ago.  He guessed  2010  - 2015  would be  crunch  time for  those                                                               
decisions to be made and he  believed there is still room for any                                                               
one of these options to come forward.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:52:27 PM                                                                                                                    
He next showed them prices of  coal delivered to a utility versus                                                               
gas for  2005 and  2006; coal provided  quite a  benefit. Natural                                                               
gas plants tend to be smaller,  he said, maybe 50 megawatts; coal                                                               
plants  are 210  -220 megawatts.  So  you need  four natural  gas                                                               
plants for one coal. So, if  you think in terms of substituting a                                                               
gas plant, it  will likely be larger and the  implication is that                                                               
it takes out a significant amount of potential demand.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if hydro is expanding at all.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied not in the  US, but in the developing world.                                                               
In areas of drought it has  gone down; damns have been removed in                                                               
other areas.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:53:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked if he  had factored in  the political                                                               
and environmental perspectives. He asked  if he foresaw more coal                                                               
or nuclear generators being built in the next 20 years.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied, "I  believe change is  afoot. He  said the                                                               
"Energy Act  of 2005" adds  a dimension he hadn't  discussed yet.                                                               
He read Section 13.07 as follows:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Creates   an   investment   tax  credit   program   for                                                                    
     qualifying advanced clean coal  projects funded at $1.3                                                                    
     billion. This section also  includes an additional $350                                                                    
     {million}  for  qualifying gasification  projects.  The                                                                    
     gasification credits  for any taxable year  is equal to                                                                    
     20 percent of the basis of  any equipment to be used in                                                                    
     the  gasification process  that  is  placed in  service                                                                    
     during the year as part  of a gasification project that                                                                    
     has been certified by DOE.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He  summarized  that  the  federal  government  is  offering  tax                                                               
incentives right now;  but he just didn't know how  it would play                                                               
out.  He  said the  environment  is  the  third bullet  -  global                                                               
warming  and  carbon  emissions.  Will  coal  be  outlawed?  Some                                                               
environmentalists  have positive  thoughts  about nuclear  power,                                                               
because it  has no  carbon emissions  associated with  it. Energy                                                               
security is  another thing to  consider along with  becoming more                                                               
energy independent.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:58:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if Texas  is the test site  for sequestering                                                               
co2 in some of its cavities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied yes. He  explained that the  system happens                                                               
when you  convert coal  to gas and  sequester the  carbon dioxide                                                               
and sell  it to  the oil  companies for  a miscible  injectant to                                                               
enhance oil recovery.  The February 26, 2007 Oil  and Gas Journal                                                               
published  an  article  on  this  topic  called  "Oil  from  Coal                                                               
Promising as  Transport Fuel." It  looked at how  profitable IGCC                                                               
was  and found  that doing  all three  has a  16 percent  rate of                                                               
return.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He said  the IEA came up  with a study that  has implications for                                                               
Alaska, but he hadn't time to fully read it yet.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:00:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS recognized Representative Olson.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:00:51 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  WILLIAMS went  to a  2007 US  Department of  Energy electric                                                               
generation  by   fuel  chart  -   coal,  nuclear,   natural  gas,                                                               
renewables and liquids. The forecast  for natural gas from 2006 -                                                               
2030 goes up (remember the  spare capacity and plants still being                                                               
constructed), but  at some  point the coal  plants are  built and                                                               
natural  gas  goes  down.  Nuclear  plateaus  and  then  goes  up                                                               
indicating that nuclear plants won't close down. He said:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     This is  their outlook; this  is not mine.  Again, it's                                                                    
     pretty  typical of  what you're  reading. Organizations                                                                    
     that study this in great  detail realize that there's a                                                                    
     price effect, that there's  competing fuels and there's                                                                    
     technology. Combine that  together with legislation and                                                                    
     it has the impact to change the dynamics.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:02:55 PM                                                                                                                    
The outlook  to 2015 showed growth  slowing for gas at  about 1.3                                                               
percent per year with the  industrial sector losing market share.                                                               
Some  of  the  issues  to  consider, he  summed  up,  are  supply                                                               
availability, price effect and environment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
Turning  to  the supply  side,  Mr.  Williams covered  indigenous                                                               
supply  by type  and region  touching  on drilling  and costs.  A                                                               
chart  from Wood  Mackenzie was  pretty typical  of what  all the                                                               
organizations were saying and was easy to read.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:06:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  how Wood  Mackenzie determined  that                                                               
Alaska natural gas would come on line by 2018.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS  replied   he  didn't  know;  it's   one  of  their                                                               
assumptions.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how much per day it would be.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied in excess of  4 bcf/day. He then  went to a                                                               
chart of the  Gulf of Mexico and stated that  Wood MacKenzie said                                                               
that although the Gulf of  Mexico had restored all major facility                                                               
and  infrastructure  operations  following the  devastating  2005                                                               
hurricane   season,    production   levels   have    fallen   off                                                               
significantly  to approximately  8 bcf/day.  Deep water  projects                                                               
are  becoming more  difficult to  produce -  remote costlier  and                                                               
subject to  longer lead times  and cost escalations.  Longer term                                                               
supplies are expected to decline  and deep water volumes will not                                                               
stem the overall decline setting  in from the mature shelf areas.                                                               
It  said that  due  to the  higher day  rates  for drilling  rigs                                                               
offered in other parts of the  world, many offshore gas rigs have                                                               
migrated  out  of the  Gulf  further  exacerbating future  supply                                                               
declines   as  less   exploration   is   conducted  with   longer                                                               
development drilling periods as well.  There is a slowdown in the                                                               
Gulf of Mexico.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:08:40 PM                                                                                                                    
Another chart indicated  that gas prices have  led to record-high                                                               
drilling rates,  but those had  now stabilized - in  part because                                                               
of the higher rates being offered  in other places and because of                                                               
the higher cost of development in the Gulf of Mexico.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said he still  remained concerned after having been                                                               
in Alberta, that they projected  having a shortage of natural gas                                                               
to  make the  tar  sands  work and  yet  natural gas  activities,                                                               
exploration and development, there are dormant.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  responded by  asking what  other options  they have                                                               
besides  gas. They  are trying  other techniques  and alternative                                                               
fuel  sources like  coal -  recently they  talked about  nuclear.                                                               
"So, don't  think in terms  of gas; think  in terms of  energy to                                                               
develop the oil sands."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:11:35 PM                                                                                                                    
He went  to a  Wood Mackenzie  chart on the  Gulf of  Mexico that                                                               
indicated declining production and increasing costs.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:12:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if  this 2015 forecast  was moved  back to                                                               
2007 real dollars.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:13:02 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS  replied yes; it  has a  lot of assumptions  that he                                                               
didn't necessarily agree  with. His point, though,  is that costs                                                               
are actually  increasing. He read  from an IEA report  to support                                                               
that. It said:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     A  viscous  circle has  started  whereby  the costs  of                                                                    
     obtaining  energy, raw  materials, and  human resources                                                                    
     are increasing the cost of  incremental supplies of the                                                                    
     same basic  factors of production.  An increase  in the                                                                    
     number of  large-scale projects being developed  at the                                                                    
     same time; their remoteness  and greater complexity and                                                                    
     the increasing  need for costly  production enhancement                                                                    
     at  large  mature  fields  have  added  to  the  upward                                                                    
     pressure on costs.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:14:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN asked  if the last article  was referencing North                                                               
America or worldwide.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS replied worldwide.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if he  had any projections on  cost trends                                                               
over the next four years.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  replied no, but  they are  high. He said  the April                                                               
2007Petroleum  Economist  said  last  year  that  no  oil  majors                                                               
approved  developments to  increase LNG  production and  the last                                                               
investment decision on an LNG scheme  (Qatar Gas 3) was taking 15                                                               
months. The  US contractor,  Bechtel, said  the cost  of building                                                               
LNG  plants  has trebled  in  the  last  six  years. One  of  the                                                               
industry's  big three  engineering  procurement and  construction                                                               
contractors,  along  with  Japan's  Toyota  and  the  Japanese/US                                                               
JGCKBR Consortium, said the cost  of building liquifaction plants                                                               
has risen  to as much  as $600/ton/year production capacity  - up                                                               
from $200/ton in  2000. Two of the largest projects  in the world                                                               
under  construction are  over-budget  and  behind schedule.  Time                                                               
scales  are becoming  longer as  well. The  stretched contracting                                                               
market means  bill times for  liquifaction plants are  four years                                                               
rather than three years. He stated  that an 18-month delay in FID                                                               
(final  investment decision)  at  BP led  a  $6 million  ton/year                                                               
project  to a  cost increase  from $400  million to  $1.8 billion                                                               
after  the original  contract expired.  The article  had a  quote                                                               
from  someone  at  Wood  Mackenzie   that  said,  "If  you  leave                                                               
everything equal and  just ramp up the cost and  then some of the                                                               
economics start  to look pretty  miserable - not what  you expect                                                               
from an LNG project."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
It  further said  the underlying  causes  of rising  construction                                                               
costs   are  escalating   raw  material   prices  in   the  tight                                                               
contracting market, both signs that  the LNG industry is becoming                                                               
a victim  of its own  success. Until 2006  technological advances                                                               
and  increased  economies  of  scale  pushed  liquifaction  plant                                                               
construction costs down below $200/ton.  This made LNG costs more                                                               
competitive when  measured against alternative  pipeline schemes.                                                               
However last few  years saw costs edge higher to  the $250 - $350                                                               
range and  Wood Mackenzie  estimates that  prices have  now risen                                                               
substantially above that - between $500 and $1000/ton/year.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He said  they should keep  in mind that  when the price  of crude                                                               
oil decreased  by 50 percent in  1986, one of the  ways a company                                                               
could remain profitable was to  merge and that's when the mergers                                                               
of the  big oil  companies started happening.  At the  same time,                                                               
the  service  companies started  downsizing.  Think  about it  he                                                               
said; the  number of engineers graduating  with petroleum degrees                                                               
decreased and so there's a  shortage of manpower. Eventually that                                                               
will come  around. He advised  to think in  terms of the  next 10                                                               
years: how long does  it take for someone to go  to school, get a                                                               
degree and  come out? Add the  retiring baby boomers to  that. "I                                                               
mean there's a confluence of things going on here."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if this  was limited to natural gas or                                                               
other areas, like nuclear.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILLIAMS replied  it's  across  the board.  Oil  and gas  is                                                               
feeling  it  more  strongly  because  of  the  "downsizing."  The                                                               
electric utility industry has been  expanding; so they still have                                                               
a lot of electrical engineers.  While nuclear has been relatively                                                               
stagnant in the US, it has not been stagnant around the world.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:20:42 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  WILLIAMS  hurried along  and  said  that LNG  supply  global                                                               
capacity is  growing rapidly.  The US imported  1.4 bcf  in 2006;                                                               
the IEA predicts  that will increase by 80 percent  this year and                                                               
be  five  times  larger  in  2015.   He  said  they  seem  to  be                                                               
overestimating in part because of  warmer winters and because LNG                                                               
cargos are being diverted to Asia.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:21:20 PM                                                                                                                    
He said  the LNG fleet  is also growing. He  showed a map  of all                                                               
the  LNG   projects  in  North  America   including  gasification                                                               
facilities that he  got off of the FERC website  where it is easy                                                               
to stay up to date. He  didn't think all of the proposed projects                                                               
would happen - maybe less than half.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:24:23 PM                                                                                                                    
He showed a  number of charts indicating among  other things that                                                               
Canada  exported about  9.1 bcf/d  to the  US in  2005, about  90                                                               
percent of US  imports. However, less gas will  be made available                                                               
to the  US looking  forward because  of decreased  production and                                                               
increased domestic consumption (in the tar sands).                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:25:30 PM                                                                                                                    
In summary  he said US  gas production  is declining; new  US gas                                                               
production is  higher cost; Canada's role  diminishes in relative                                                               
importance; the US becomes more  dependent on LNG; and if there's                                                               
lower  prices than  natural gas,  they decrease  the threat  from                                                               
coal and nuclear.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:25:54 PM                                                                                                                    
He wanted  to leave them with  some points to ponder:  there is a                                                               
lot  of uncertainty  surrounding environmental  issues; how  will                                                               
that  play out?  Will new  legislation enhance  gas or  coal? The                                                               
utilities will  get some  standards in  the US  so they  can have                                                               
certainty  and  move  forward with  their  decision-making.  Will                                                               
there be a  nuclear renaissance? He didn't know,  but the Nuclear                                                               
Regulatory Commission is  actually gearing up to have  a lot more                                                               
applications.  Is IGCC  feasible; will  utilities start  building                                                               
plants? The studies don't have  commercial applications; they are                                                               
only  demonstration  projects.  Will the  crude  oil/natural  gas                                                               
price  ratio remain  the same;  will they  go back  to historical                                                               
standards or get farther apart? He  ended by saying he would take                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:28:08 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   HUGGINS   thanked   him   for   his   very   professional                                                               
presentation. There being no further  business to come before the                                                               
committee, he adjourned the meeting at 5:29:16 PM.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects